tain.totalcodex.net

Cap, please relax.. I don't know if you are actually angry or whatever - I can't read your mind. All I have is your posts, and that is how you come across. When I say this, I am not calling you names, I am explaining why your posts have elicited a negative reaction, in this thread and in others.

Anyways, by all means, let us focus on the issues you reported!

(1) The coop toggle exploit doesn't work anymore, and crashes.
My response: The crash will be fixed for the next version. If the ability to play coop maps as multi and vice versa is a legitimate feature, it should have a legitimate way to toggle it, instead of relying on a bug in the UI. We can discuss whether such an option should be added.

(2) Multiple mapset plugins can't be loaded simultaneously.
My response: Which plugs do you want to play which are like this? We can create a mapset+tagset version for you.

not sure how plugs that are tagsets and map files react though over the years the number that included both has been many... and activating multiple tagsets and maps has been a common practice for ages...

just saying...

if i get a chance ill see how it affects the Greek plugin and several others that utilize this style of doing things...

Melekor wrote:
(1) The coop toggle exploit doesn't work anymore, and crashes.
My response: The crash will be fixed for the next version. If the ability to play coop maps as multi and vice versa is a legitimate feature, it should have a legitimate way to toggle it, instead of relying on a bug in the UI. We can discuss whether such an option should be added.

(2) Multiple mapset plugins can't be loaded simultaneously.
My response: Which plugs do you want to play which are like this? We can create a mapset+tagset version for you.

P.S. Your thoughts are about thinking someone being angry are a total red herring for the bug reports. I am speaking plainly about problem/bugs I am seeing and have never been ad hominem even though you continue to perseverate on this as if it were the sole, primary focus of any of my commentary.

It is not an exploit, it is a useful feature.

Unfortunately you can not support every permutation of plugin from the past, present and future so the offer to convert makes less sense and is a lot of work versus having the code revert to the prior methodology. And Points comments are SPOT on as to why it makes sense to revert to old code.

Point has mentioned all sorts of issues throughout the years and I never get the feeling he is ever angry. Even when no one understands what he is talking about due to how he explains it, he always manages to come off as calm.

Rebuilding some old plugins into the mapset/tagset format isn't that much work. If there were many, sure... but no one has mentioned any yet. Point has mentioned a possible one, but he even states he isn't sure. You can even make a mapset that depends on another mapset really easy, too. So you don't need to activate both mapsets, just run one to run both if set right.

If it was as common as you guys claimed, it would have been brought up sooner.

You said you weren't going to report bugs anymore because you keep getting a bad response. I was trying to be helpful by explaining why you have been getting that kind of response, and what you could do to change it. If you really think that you are blameless here, you might want to ask yourself: Why other people are able to report bugs and get issues resolved without having gigantic arguments, and you are not?

Now as for the issues:

I explained why I say the coop checkbox thing is an exploit earlier. I'll try once more: here's the definition from wikipedia:

An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).

(emphasis mine). This is precisely what is going on when you hold the down arrow key while quickly clicking the checkbox. You figured out a way to trick the game into letting you do something unintentional.

Just because it lets you do something that you want, or because it has been there for a certain amount of time (since 1997) does not mean that it isn't a bug. If you are just going to keep repeating "it isn't a bug" over and over again we are not going to get anywhere. Again: If playing coop maps as multi or vice-versa is a legit feature, then it needs to have a legit way to turn the option on, and we can have a discussion about that.

About the maps thing: I have asked at least 3 times in this thread which maps you are trying to play that aren't working. Do you even care about being able to play something here or is this all just hypothetical? The new UI was introduced because it has a lot of advantages. It is not going to be reverted. I don't understand why you would refuse an offer to convert a legacy plugin. If you don't want help to solve a specific problem then there is nothing that I can do.

though I personally see no improvement to the new system over the old system for activating maps and plugins I don't see it as the end of the world either. I'm not a fan of having to update "legacy" plugins though it wouldn't be that much work if even needed... as far as no longer being able to activate two map plugins thats probably only going to affect a few configurations and one day someone will combine all map plugins into one map pack under their own name anyway so as long as activating more than one "tagset" at a time is still possible I think most people will be kept happy

keep up the good work.

I do not believe activating two map plugins ever worked before. Sure, you could select them as active, but when the game would start, only the one that has the map you selected would actually be loaded. You can try this with 1.7.2 and check what actually got activated in the myth log, to verify.

The only exception is when a map is set by the mapmaker to require another plugin - in this case it was possible for a map to depend on another map plugin. (And this case still works in 1.8 to my knowledge.)

At least that is my understanding. Feel free to offer an example set of plugins which prove me wrong.

Point said during a HL discussion some time ago that the greek plugin worked like that, which is what I was using as the basis for my earlier statement that "there are a small number of plugins out there that work this way".

Looking at the 1.7.2 code again though, Myrd is correct. It doesn't seem to allow loading more than one mesh plugin unless it is done as a dependency. I also created a test plugin to verify that this is the case.

So, good job cap, another argument over something that doesn't even exist :|

Depends on how you create the plugin and if the map tag has some tagset tags... and if it is created so that loads last is checked... They can work ... and if a plugin has map and unit tags in it and the load order is set Correctly ... they can replace myth tags on regular levels or at least could before..



open any plug in oak if the units show replacements for myth units then it probably used to work with the map plug and regular maps and many other maps.

Got proof? Still waiting for a real life example

Not sure whether this was a new 424 build bug or just random, but just had a mazz game crash right to desktop. No film was recorded; no crash log written, but here is the regular myth_log.

Industry wrote:Not sure whether this was a new 424 build bug or just random, but just had a mazz game crash right to desktop. No film was recorded; no crash log written, but here is the regular myth_log.

Nothing in Console app under crash logs?

No, the only Myth II 1.8 stuff is from build 409 crashes from last August.

bluseychris2 wrote:Quick question: When are the 1.8.0 demos coming out?

The 1.8.0 demo has been released: http://www.getmyth.com

I saw this just now, the moddb page news has been updated here with links to the tain pages and hotfix news. I'll upload the demos tomorrow after work because football is on.

http://www.moddb.com/games/myth2/news/m ... ddb-hosted

Just waiting for it to go through the approval system.

[edit]

Is that animal I see in your avatar?