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vinylrake wrote: Well keep in mind that even though Myth 2 shipped with the worst bug of ALL TIME in the entire history of computer gaming - the windows Myth 2 uninstaller erased your hard drive!! - it was still a hit.

Firefox had the same bug for some time...myrd explained this once...

-DA

Death's Avatar wrote:

vinylrake wrote: Well keep in mind that even though Myth 2 shipped with the worst bug of ALL TIME in the entire history of computer gaming ...

Firefox had the same bug for some time...myrd explained this once...

-DA

"Firefox"? I am not familiar with that game... is that one of those spaceship shooter games?

meh. So I didn't read super close. Point is, its not all that of an "unbelievable crazy bug". Well...it is...but without the unbelievable.

-DA

WTB M3 Avatar in Myth 2

GodzFire wrote:Myth 3 itself was not bad, no matter what anyone says. I don't know when they M3 Hater Bandwagon started but it's really old.

The best part for me was the story. Finally being able to see how our top bad guys from M1/M2 were actually good is great. Finally we got to find out who the hell that Head was. We get to see what happened to the Smiths of Murthem' and how the Trow cities melted..

I felt the story was a bit less special than the plot that had been revealed thus far.

I think the issue is not that Myth III is bad sometimes, just that Myth I/II are absolutely incredible. Even if Myth III had been a very above average game it would not compare.

And the Iron Trow was awesome.

In solo maybe, in multi they ruined everything.

Given so many complaints about M3 here are basically that it was not M2, I have to wonder....who cares? M2 exists, go play it. You've probably already got it. It might not be brilliant, but I prefer the idea of "Myth III: The Wolf Age" to "Myth III: Myth II All Over Again".

Changing direction a little was a good idea. Didn't work right, however.

Death's Avatar wrote:meh. So I didn't read super close. Point is, its not all that of an "unbelievable crazy bug". Well...it is...but without the unbelievable.

DA, why did you put "unbelievable crazy bug" in quotes? That's not what I said. I didn't say it was 'unbelievable' or 'crazy'. What I said was that Myth 2 shipped with the "worst bug of ALL TIME in the entire history of computer gaming". UNless there was a bug in a computer game that did worse than erase one's hard drive, I will stand by that statement.

And back in 1998, losing your hard drive was an even bigger deal. Far fewer people had backups then, and the world was a lot more afraid of computers. I remember all my friends' parents telling me to be careful with theirs in case it blew up.

Our Mac survived anything though. "How many browser windows can I open before it crashes? 200?", "Lets make the game freeze by making all of my thousands of units self-destruct at once"....good times.

vinylrake wrote:DA, why did you put "unbelievable crazy bug" in quotes? That's not what I said. I didn't say it was 'unbelievable' or 'crazy'. What I said was that Myth 2 shipped with the "worst bug of ALL TIME in the entire history of computer gaming". UNless there was a bug in a computer game that did worse than erase one's hard drive, I will stand by that statement.

Paraphrasing? Emphasis that it was your thought not mine?

If you can't see the connection, I'm afraid you are going to have to remember that this is a discussion forum. Things are colloquial and... well discussion based. If "worst bug of ALL TIME in the entire history of computer gaming" doesn't evoke the word unbelievable, or crazy then I can't help you.

Erasing your hard drive is not the worst thing a game can do to your computer, and I am willing to bet it is not the only game to do it in "the history of computer gaming". This is my point. Don't take it as anything else, or pick at semantics that are otherwise clear.

-DA

Death's Avatar wrote:

vinylrake wrote:DA, why did you put "unbelievable crazy bug" in quotes? That's not what I said. ...

Paraphrasing? Emphasis that it was your thought not mine?

I get that this is a discussion and people paraphrase things, but when quotes are put around a phrase, common usage means that you are quoting someone's actual words. Thus my objection. Even if the jist of your characterization is in the general ballpark of my feelings, I just don't like being misquoted.

I am willing to believe some other game has had an equally damaging though different bug, though I would be really curious what you think a game could do to your computer that would be worse. I don't mean this to be argumentative, I am just curious because I really can't imagine any way a game could do actual physical damage to a computer, and short of that, wiping out one's hard drive erasing all software and data AND the OS and making the computer itself completely unusable until everything is re-installed is about the worst I can imagine a piece of software could do.

btw, I wasn't meaning to pick at semantics or start an argument, I just don't like it when quotes are attributed to me that I did not say.

Well I'm all for not arguing!

As for other damage, who knows. Push something over the edge I suppose, especially if you are using some non-standard setup. But that isn't necessarily caused by a bug. I mean, there are worse things that can happen to a computer than data loss, so I'm not willing to say a bug in some game hasn't caused them.

-DA

Before I put in my 2 cents I figured I'd play a few levels since I haven't played Myth III in a long time.. I did the first and third levels.

Here are a few thoughts I had while playing.

• Explosions really really suck. They look about a million times worse than myth II explosions and if too many happen at once the mesh starts wigging out. (Like colors go all weird and all the grass "flickers").
• The status bar takes up a huge portion of the screen. Especially if you are running at a lower resolution. I know some Mythers like to play with all UI off but I like the status bar to know how much ammo/roots/kills are there.
• Lighting. There are some cools things going on with the lighting. I really liked how shadows were displayed in real time, and would move as I walked around the fire. However things are alltogether way too dark for my tastes.
• A lot of things feel unfinished. Notice in this screenshot that the Peasant's shadow is all boxy like they didn't finish it whereas the hearthguard's shadow looks good.
  
• The double cutscenes annoy me. I think this is part of the "telling too much story" that people complain about. I actually don't mind the story, but the format Bungie originally used wasn't really made for such a long story before each level. They should have either shortened the story, or found a format that worked better.
• Feel. I know this is very subjective but things feel very different to me than they did in the previous myths. Let me give some examples.
  
  • Speed. Things are just way too slow. The units act like they are walking thru molasses all the time. They attack that way too. I watched a fight between heron and thrall and I felt like I was watching instead of controlling the units.
  • Boxy units. For most units this actually doesn't bug me. While the archers and warriors and heron are all boxier than their myth II counterparts I can except this as just a different art style. However I hate hate hate the Wights and Myrks.
  • Wights. I could probably except the wights as part of the new art style but the explosions kill it for me. They are also messed up gameplay wise. I actually tried to heal one with Damas and the dang thing blew up before his heal animation was done. That's a serious gameplay change.
  • Myrks. They look more like mutated ghols than myrks to me. New art style sure, but I just can't bring myself to accept them as the same fearsome creatures from myth II. Part of that might also be the slow attack speed and lack of flinching. In myth II when a myrk started attacking a warrior your warrior didn't just die, he was helpless. He couldn't even fight back he got attacked so fast.

Take into account also that I was playing on the latest 1.3.1 patch that the FF guys made before they left. They fixed a bunch of bugs from the original. With all the original bugs the game started with I think too many people had too many problems. It doesn't really feel like myth in a lot of ways so have a hard time getting the diehards to make the transition. However with all the bugs, and the apparent lack of hope that anything would get fixed turned people off.

Another big deal was multiplayer. Say what you want but a big part of what has kept myth II alive so long has been the multiplayer. Myth III's multiplayer was not nearly as good.

I also think the mere fact that Bungie didn't make the game put everyone in a pessimistic attitude. People were looking at the glass half empty.

I think that if you only had one or 2 of the problems, with hope of them getting fixed, then perhaps myth III could have taken over. But add them all up and we have what we have.

TarousZars wrote:

• Speed. Things are just way too slow. The units act like they are walking thru molasses all the time. They attack that way too. I watched a fight between heron and thrall and I felt like I was watching instead of controlling the units.

To recall a quote that brought us much laughter in the days of yore:

"Didn't we used to be faster?"
"It's more balanced this way"

I've said it before, I'll say it again: if you want to play Myth 2 play MYth 2. Myth 3 was never going to be that game.

Well described, TZ - brought a lot of my own Myth III experience back, years later. It is a really dark game.

I also realized when you mentioned the boxy quality of units (something I still really dislike in games, even when they're heavily smoothed) is just what exactly the M3 Dwarf unit reminded me of... it's the head... a King on a standard deck of cards. Sigh.

I agree with evreything TZ said accept the part about the multiplayer being bad.

Given the problems TZ stated, the multiplayer was not bad on myth 3.
The battles had a closer feel to myth TFL then to myth2 SB.
Melee battles were better in myth 3 then in myth 2, i never liked myth 2's super clumping melee much, but if they cant clump they will also act retarded and get stuck trying to get around each other.

The multiplayer i found was one of the good things about myth 3.
Myth 3 Coop was also just as good in the other myth games.

overall the game felt unfinsihed and seemed to be focused more at getting new players with flashy bullshit, and less aimed at mythers looking for more of the same in a new myth.

The units looked shitty for the most part as TZ said, but i dont belive this was a production design/art choice and more "we just accept any crap the modelers give us."

anybody who gives 2 shits about myth knows that myth 3 myrks are sorry ass P.O.S units. Too bad the guy who lead mumbo jumbo = Andrew Meggs seamed to not be a myth fan to begin with = shitty results.

-Renwood