Giving credit (among other things) should be a requirement

[ozone]

I've noticed on the tain that many uploads have no read_me or any other form of text file that gives credit to the original person that made the mesh. I think this should be a must if you want to submit something. Some of these resent uploads use the same pregame pict as the original. Not cool IMO...if you are too lazy to change the pregame pict then maybe you shouldn't be uploading?

Now I understand the tain admins don't have tons of time to go through each file uploaded so I'm offering my assistance in doing this. I feel the tain is being filled up with plugs made in 10 min or less and there really needs to be some quality control. If a person takes time to credit the right ppl and change the pregame these are good signs that the plug is made by someone who seems to care...

[vinylrake]

i'd be happy to assist as well. personally i think any map that reuses _any_ components from other maps (whether units, colormaps, whatever) should list those things in the credits, but that might be overly idealistic.

if you need references, i have a reasonable knowledge of maps and plugs so might be able to be of some help.

[Myrd]

I agree that it would be good. If you're offering to help can you make a list of such plugins (on this thread), and I can contact the authors to request that they comply (or else!).

[Zaknafein]

I feel as if this is aimed at me. I personally find this prejudiced against people who take files from 40 different plugins and throw them into one! Why don't you make my readmes for me o3?

I keep the pregame images the same so people will know who actually made the map they are about to play. Most of them have "made by _________" on them.

[vinylrake]

I wasn't aware who this was 'aimed at', but a readme doesn't have to be very complex it could be as simple as:

name: Fred's Ménage à trois Map Collection

description: This is a collection of maps modified for 3 team play.

This collection includes the following maps:

Rain on the Mire Darsh: Based on "Rain on the Dire Marsh", by DeathStalker
Mimsy on the Borogove: Based on "Jabberwocky Delight", by Sam I am
Gangsta Three-a-dice: Based on "Medieval drive-by" by 3Pac

etc..."

RE: pre-game, it is good to keep the original authorship intact, but i think if it is NOT the exact same map, there should be something to distinguish what map is what. One option would be do something similar to what Baak'lor does for his 'redux' versions of maps created by other people.
He keeps the original pregame but adds text along the lines of 'REDUX version by Baak'. That way you still acknowledge the original map and author (as you are currently) but you also differentiate the map so someone can tell what map they are loading.

[Zaknafein]

Seaing as this wes pusted AFTAR I finashed all my plogins, I will not be muking the readmes far those. Hawever, I wall comprymise with yuu o3, for I um a man of raisin.

I woll muke raedmies fur all footure plagins I uplaod to der tainz.

[Myrd]

Zak, please update all your submissions and add ReadMe's to them, or we will remove them from The Tain.

In this case, Ozone is actually the author of some of the meshes you have used and so can request that they be taken down from The Tain per The Tain's Terms of Use.

[Zaknafein]

Perhops if azone hud nat ottacked the qualety of my plygins an a pussive aggrassove menner, than I wuld hove mide thoes radmaes! As the saturation currantly stonds, I refusa to edat mu carrynt fules of the toin. If you mast dylete tham, goe ryght ahuad. I core nut.

Ulso, nat ona of me plagins hos a readmy, und thay oll cuntayn wark thet is nyt mane. Delate thum ill.

[Zaknafein]

BURN THAM ALL

[vinylrake]

shame to lose all those maps.

ironic that pretty much all you would need for a readme would be the descriptions including the original authors you wrote when you posted the maps to the tain. not like you'd have to create the descriptions from scratch or anything.

[Fury IX]

If you clearly state in the plugin title where the map comes from, a readme seems redundant. Also the Tain submission bio seems a good place for information, readmes can be hard to open. If its not a major plug of course

Looking at the the plugins on the tain, I see a reasonable attempt to give credit where it is due. No need to give a history lesson

I am guilty of reusing pregames, I figured (like zak), that it would be an easy way for people to see who made the map. I see how it could go both ways, mostly I was just lazy (and didn't know how). I also don't have readmes...

Dont get me wrong, im a big fan of giving credit where it is due. As VR mentioned, adding txt to pregame, as well as a word in the level hints, are good ideas in addition. Also, maybe a link to the original file (if its on the tain), would be good

[Pyro]

... readmes can be hard to open.

Double clicking is such a pain.

Looking at the the plugins on the tain, I see a reasonable attempt to give credit where it is due. No need to give a history lesson

I didn't read all descriptions, but the ones I did read did not specify who made what, just a general "thanks to the people who made this or that" type of credit.

I also don't have readmes...

I find readmes useful. When you make something, a readme is not useful for the maker of a plugin... it is meant for the users. Sometimes I forget what a plugin is all about or some other info about it. I look for the readme to see if the answer to my question is in it. I keep all readmes. Also, I find it annoying when people just label it "Read Me" instead of the title of the plugin with "Read Me" afterwards... but that is just me.

[carlinho]

no offense against anyone, and specially not intended against you Zak, just a point of view as a mapmaker who does original stuff, and being that SOOO time consuming and hard to do.

I find it really annoying :

1. people not asking permission to use stuff you made
2.not adding a readme where credits are stated

Of course if you take 300 things from 300 different places, and you forget to thank/credit 5 out of 300, well, then it might be considered a confusion, still if the owner claims to be credited, it should be done.
I don't think anyone who does myth stuff is against elements being used in other maps...
I think on the contrary, it's very encouraging that people liked your plugs so much that they would want to use stuff from them
still, it's nice to be asked permission (it's a sign of respect) and it's nice to be credited (it's just fair)

cheers

[Zaknafein]

When I figure the author is sensitive about the use of his tags, I will generally ask. Guess how I found most of my files? I browsed the tain and downloaded stuff. Did I take anything from author "ozone"? No. Most of the stuff I untagged was from authors that no longer play myth, how am I going to get permission? When I am merely converting a map from 3rd party to just regular myth units, why should I need permission? When a map is as LOW QUALITY as mine, do we really care if there is a readme?

If it is so important that my files have readmes, why don't one of you do it for me? I'm sorry but I am exhausted, since it took TENS of minutes to complete my plugin collection. Here let me select one of you, eenie meenie, miney moe, OZONE. There thats settled, get to work buddy.

Or I can compromise with you fellows once more. I will give proper credit to the authors I stole from, but only on the tain descriptions.

[ozone]

Who made the manistee paintball mesh? From the pregame you would think GHOST made it but if you look at read me then you'll realize it was me. That's the problem I have with using the pregame because sometimes the name on the pregame doesn't mean that person made all aspects of the mesh and the part they created isn't the part you're even using. So you're basically giving credit to someone who has nothing to do with any aspect of your new mesh.

Zak so you know I've mentioned this long before you uploaded these plugs but it is true they did rekindle my desire to see something done about nobody giving credit where credit is due... Sorry if you took it personally.